The COMPOSURE Podcast

Brain Hack: Yes, that was a Microaggression. Now what?

• Kate Purmal and Lee Epting • Season 1 • Episode 7

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"Did he really just say that?”

You're the only one like you in the room, and an executive colleague says something that you find biased, offensive, or dismissive. 

However, it’s not egregious. If it were just a one-off you might brush it off — but it’s not. 

You’re torn. You don’t want to call him out in front of your peers — or worse a partner or customer. But you also don’t want to let it slide. 

This is the central dilemma special guest Erin Rech brings to her "brain hack" coaching session with Kate Purmal. 

Kate takes Erin through coaching exercises to find the “right” response so she can: 

  • Stay present in the room without being overly reactive
  • Show up in a way that ensures accountability and helps create change
  • Acknowledge the microaggression instead of ignoring or internalizing it
  • Create a course of action without bearing the sole responsibility for resolution

Read A Simple “Brain Hack" to Loosen the Grip of your Perfectionism — The COMPOSURE Blog ➞

Drew Tweedy:

Hey everyone, and welcome back to The COMPOSURE Podcast! Today were joined by Erin Rech, who is our next participant in the Brain Hack series. This is our third installment, but as a quick reminder, were featuring several special guests who will go through coaching sessions with COMPOSURE author Kate Purmal and have their brain hacked... What that really means is Kate will help identify an area of our guests lives where theyre struggling or theyd just like to be more resourceful then she helps radically shift their mindset around that issue. The result is a huge boost in self-confidence in the ways our brain hack guests are able to handle their toughest obstacles. Before we dive in, though, lets introduce our wonderful guest, Erin! Erins story is one of compassion, empathy, and advocacy for communities and causes that deserve to have their voices amplified. Her life practices are anti-racism, childhood trauma recovery, climate justice, healing justice, and transformational storytelling. Erin grew up in the Midwest, but has spent the majority of her career in California and New York. She spends her free time healing her mind, body, and spirit through multiple modalities, and she serves as a support resource to Hersiliency, a healing justice community organization. Oh and shes writing her first memoir! Erin is an SVP, Advanced Audio & Data Revenue, at iHeartMedia, where she advocates for data strategy, transformation, and Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion across the organization. In short, Erin is an incredible businesswoman with a kind heart and a real drive to make the world a more accessible and compassionate place. So, without further ado welcome, Erin, and thanks so much for joining us!

Erin Rech:

Thank you. Glad to be here.

Kate Purmal:

Yes, thank you so much, Erin. The thing I remember most about the first time we met was being struck by how much of your intention is around advocacy, and healing and all of those things that really matter to you. And it really struck me as something that is so important, and so valuable. So thank you for that work you do and you try to carry that into non-work, right, which is, I think what we're going to talk a little about today. So Erin and I had a previous conversation about a few situations that are really common for the senior executive women I work with, in which they experience microaggressions in their work environment, whether it's from the executive team, or in the boardroom, where they are told that they're too emotional, or in some way too much. They're too passionate, they're too something... But this idea of experience these microaggressions in which they're not able to really show up and be authentic, are happening frequently. And it's tricky, because you have to have a working relationship with these people that are creating microaggressions and you need to find the right balance. So that's what we're going to explore today. Erin, did I get that right?

Erin Rech:

Yeah. And I would just add, the question I have is how to show up in a way that not only asks for accountability, but also creates the change that others need me to be leading as somebody with some executive presence and white privilege that I carry into rooms. How do I help others be lifted and amplified?

Kate Purmal:

Yeah, thank you. And that's so important. That's another thread that is also common amongst these senior executive women is that almost universally, they're wanting not to just do the thing that we need, but do the right thing to make an impact so that the women behind us and the women of color behind us don't have to experience the things that we've experienced. Alright, so let's just talk about I know that. This is not an isolated incident. I know these things happen with some frequency in your work environment, which is mostly male at the executive ranks, correct? So why don't you give us an example or sort of generically talk about the kind of thing that occurs that you're struggling with how to respond to?

Erin Rech:

Yeah, I can paint like a pretty general picture. I don't want to get into specifics, obviously. But the the most recent example of what I experienced was on a Zoom call with a vendor that we work with, and several senior leaders on my side of our organization. And there were like six or seven of us on the call and I was the only woman, which is not an unheard of scenario for me in my day to day life and also as a woman who works in more digital and data, technical side of things. Being the only woman in a room is comfortable for me. But then, you know, there's always those moments where I'm wondering, oh, wait, is it because I'm a woman that just happened? Or is that just how I would have been treated if I were a male in this moment. So the scenario that comes to mind is I'm on this call with a bunch of guys and I am in the ranks of the people, my title is the same as other people's in this meeting. There's a few more senior than me, there's a few more junior than me. So I have a seat at this table. And the most senior male, who is my colleague, I do not report into him, first called me by the wrong name of the only other woman in my group. So again, first strike, you're like,"Okay, well, that was maybe just an oversight. I've called people the wrong name, too." And then, as this gentleman was leaving the call, it was a very quick, he named the three males on the call, and said everybody else on our side of the table, you can all do the follow up from here. And then it was like, Well, wait, I'm sitting on Zoom, you can see my name under my face, which is also present in this call, as you can see everybody else's. But why didn't you say my name you called everybody else by name, but not me? And you had gotten my name wrong. And I was like, I also contributed in the call. So the question I was wondering is, in that moment, do you say something? Because as it's happening, you almost don't have enough awareness all the time to be like, ah, this is a moment that I need to call out. And then, as the call was wrapping, is that the time but there's a vendor on the line? And then okay, so I didn't say anything, but I could feel that in my body, felt a response. And so afterwards, I was pinging my boss, and he was like, I wish I could tell you that there's a reason for that. But I think it's more widespread than I could even explain. So then I was left with, okay, so what do I do about it? Do I do anything? Do I not? Where do I know what path to pursue? I know it didn't make me feel okay. And it's not the first time. But what do I do?

Kate Purmal:

Yeah, and by the way, one of the most important things is recognizing that there's no shame in not knowing how to respond to that in the moment, because microaggressions are called microaggressions for a reason. They're not obvious, blatant aggressions, right? And that's what makes them so insipid, they they show up in the normal world, and a lot of people don't necessarily notice them. You do. Other women might notice them. But a lot of the men in the room may not notice them, so they're not blatant and egregious. It's that gray zone, and you're out here going, wait, did I just...? What just happened here? You're having that moment, right? So first of all, there's no shame in that. There's no reason to beat yourself up for that. That is the nature of the beast. And secondly, I think that we feel like we have to respond appropriately in the moment or we've missed an opportunity. And I just want to throw that out, too, is that there's no reason why you have to have the perfect response in the moment. Very few of us can actually do that. And so it's okay to process and to decide to take action later. So that's the gist. That's just the context. So the real question for us now is asking the question when these things happen, how do you decide what to do? I think that's sort of where we're at right? Okay, so first of all, I want to get in touch with what's happening with you when this is happening. So when in this particular instance and or other instances when it happens, you mentioned that you felt it in your body. Tell me about that. What is the feeling, what is the emotion, what is it that's happening internally for you?

Erin Rech:

Well, it's interesting because it's now present, I can feel it now. Because I just told the story. And it's like a burning. Yeah, not painful but like an electric burn, up and down like what I would say is my sternum, esophagus area, and then down along my ribcage, upper torso, front area. It's a little bit like, zing!

Kate Purmal:

It's really interesting because I can feel what you're saying just from from hearing it. I can feel that it's almost like a little bit of indigestion, but you don't have indigestion. It's kind of a furnace. So, yeah, so it's not sharp. It's a little dull. Right? If you had to give it a color, what color would it be?

Erin Rech:

Oh, it's like a red orange.

Kate Purmal:

The first thing that comes to mind, give it three words or emotions that go along with that.

Erin Rech:

I can hear the word fire, which is like my equivalent of rage. Oh, a little bit of, let's see, what's this emotion? I can maybe describe it. It's probably easier. Like a defense. Like a stance. Like, it's maybe it's the fight. Reflex. I think it's in that sympathetic nervous system zone.

Kate Purmal:

So you're not stepping back, you're stepping up or you're standing up to it.

Erin Rech:

A little bit like, you know, when you're squaring off to box somebody? Right, and neither forward nor back. I'm just ready. I would also say there's like a low level anxiety, panicky feeling inside of that, which I would equate to like a little bit of feeling trapped when you don't know what to do. That's also in there.

Kate Purmal:

And tell me about what's sitting below all of that. Beneath it.

Erin Rech:

Good question, what's under there is, you know, like this... What about me?

Kate Purmal:

Yeah, I have a little bit of a feeling of heartbroken. I'm heartbroken for you. It's heartbreaking. To have heard that and to have heard of how it feels for you. Because it's such a lack of respect and a lack of appreciation, a lack of just decency, I guess is what it comes down to.

Erin Rech:

Yeah, and as you were saying that what kind of came up for me was going back to that body feeling, which is like, my shield is what lit up over my heart.

Kate Purmal:

Yeah, it's over your heart. Yeah. Because that happens a lot, it doesn't just happen once, it's not some slip. It happens frequently enough that you are used to being shielded up in your in your work environment.

Erin Rech:

Yeah, and that mirrors how I am in my personal life. Those two things are not mutually exclusive. I am one human, who has to be in multiple scenarios. And that tends to be a theme throughout all of them.

Kate Purmal:

So if I had to characterize it generically, is it disrespectful? What's the word that's common between when it happens new personal life?

Erin Rech:

I don't know if this is how I'd characterize it, but it might help us get to that categorization of it, which is it's like being unseen. As if like, I sort of said this before, which is like, I don't matter. Like, what about me? I'm still here. I'm still a human in this room. Is there no space for me?

Kate Purmal:

Hmm. Very interesting. When you think of this scenario, does it feel as though though people that are saying these things are trying to make you... what?

Erin Rech:

Well, you bring up a good point. I don't know that they have an agenda.

Kate Purmal:

No, no, I know. I'm not assuming that they do. But if the story in your head or the feeling that you have is is that by saying this there's something they're not treating you in the way you want to be treated?

Erin Rech:

Yeah, it's disrespectful at the end of the day, because if we can't, on both sides of the equation, meet in a room, if we can't acknowledge on a human basis that we are all present in the same place, and we are all aiming for the same goal. What is going to come of our presence with each other?

Kate Purmal:

Yeah, so it's a bunch of D words. Disrespectful. Diminishing. It's creating distance, it's doing a lot of things. Thank you. Okay. If you could wave your magic wand and have something you would like, be an outcome here, based on an action you take or someone else takes on your behalf or whatever? What is it that you would like?

Erin Rech:

There's two things I would like to come out of this, which is, first, how to hold a better boundary for my body's absorbance of some of this. And then on the other side of the equation, I'd love to have some sort of rubric or decision tree of potential actions and outcomes based on the scenario so I have some choices to make, to explore. So that my first thought, which is a little bit of like... eff off, I'm out, forget this. Yeah. So that my first thought isn't always my behavior, because my first thought is rooted in things that are older than this scenario.

Kate Purmal:

Yeah, that's a slight amount of here is a flight response. So if I have to rephrase those in a way that we might be able to work with them. The first one is to be less reactive to this dynamic and physically more shielded and have boundaries that keep it at bay a little bit. So you don't have to internalize it, because it's not pleasant. And then the second thing is that feeling, feeling confident and resourceful in being able to formulate a response or a course of action, versus what you described before, we're just feeling trapped. Yes. Okay, thank you so much. So be able to have personal boundaries to keep yourself safe, and not internalize this and be able to also be resourceful and be able to be confident in some plan of action. Those two things. Okay, let me step up a little bit, let's say so you've already spoken about the fact that part of the response you'd like to formulate a part of the action you'd like to take is, in order to ensure that this doesn't happen to other people, right? You want to make a stand or take a stance so that on behalf of others who may not even be at your level, who may not have your white privilege, who may be subjected to this and have even more challenging and demeaning, and whatever those D words are, okay? So if you think about the highest and best good, just floating up to the highest and best good, imagine yourself watching that scenario, from like a 7/11 surveillance camera, you know, you're up there, you're watching yourself, you can see the back of your head, you're watching yourself in the room when this is happening. What do you notice from this place and this highest and best good does not have an agenda, this isn't somebody who's on your side in your camp, this is somebody who's looking at the situation. And looking at the context of it being in a work environment, looking at the broader context of how this behaviors and dynamics in the work environment may impact many people. So really looking at it from a broad perspective, right? Recognizing that there may be things about this that are triggering for you or not, you know, just really trying to be impersonal about it and be wise and yet compassionate about it, but not taking a side. So if you're in that 7/11 camera, looking down at the scene from that perspective, what is it that you see or would think is in the best good for this?

Erin Rech:

The way I could see it objectively, is that everyone would walk away from that meeting, feeling equally empowered, to pursue whatever next steps need taking.

Kate Purmal:

And how does this incident impact that for everybody in the meeting?

Erin Rech:

Well, obviously for me, I was immediately turned off by what happened. So then you know if there's any next steps, sure I'll participate. But like I'm not going to get too invested because like, burn me once, right?

Kate Purmal:

And are other people also turned off when you're looking from your 7/11 surveillance camera or other people getting demotivated and turned off by the dynamic.

Erin Rech:

Definitely my colleague who I spoke to about it was very much like, what was that?

Kate Purmal:

Okay, so that was noticeable, and people thought it was inappropriate, and it wasn't okay. All right, thank you. Now, if you have the highest and best good perspective, speak to Erin. Obviously, the situation is past. And so this is all retrospect. And we'll figure out how to handle at the moment and what to do going forward. But if that person who's looking at this entire situation could have formulated an in the moment response, and that were possible to take time back, we're gonna roll time back, we're gonna stop it, like, you know, those movies, how suddenly something happens, and everybody in the movie freezes except for the protagonist, or the, the main character, and the main character keeps going. So that's what we're gonna do. We're gonna freeze everybody mid, the second it comes out of his mouth, and we're just gonna freeze everybody. Right? Except for you. And you're gonna have a conversation with this highest and best good person. So, I want you to speak from the highest and best good person to Erin. So what does that person say to Erin?

Erin Rech:

That person says to Aaron, I heard that.

Kate Purmal:

Ah, thank you. I heard it. We all heard it. Thank you. Yes, yes. And it's not okay. Correct. I heard that and it's not okay. Okay. Let's breathe that in for a second. Because we know it's not okay. And you might want to do that butterfly tapping that, slow, left, right, tap. That's so important. I have a friend who's a humanitarian photographer, and she photographs modern day slavery. And what she's doing is bearing witness. And on acknowledging what's happening, she is creating a record. And that is really, really important. Because if nobody is bearing witness, and nobody's creating a record, it isn't happening, right.

Erin Rech:

Yeah. And as you were saying that another like, CCTV voice came through, which was I'll handle it. Meaning for Erin to get to the highest and best good, somebody else can take that and deal with how that gets handled. So she is safe to keep going. Because somebody is looking out for that.

Kate Purmal:

That's so interesting. So we're still freeze framed? She says, and I'll handle that. So what does that mean about how that moment proceeds? Or how Erin proceeds to have that highest and best good person handling it?

Erin Rech:

Well, I think what I can see in like my mind's eye, is Erin can continue trusting the other colleagues to keep doing the better work output. Because there will be accountability somewhere. And not accountability that is blamed for or finger pointing, but accountability that creates change. Not performative. Accountability is what I'm trying to say.

Kate Purmal:

Got it. So it's not important that anything happens in that moment. Other than having Erin know that. I saw that I heard that. And we'll take care of it. Is Erin involved in the taking care of it from the 7/11 camera?

Erin Rech:

Um, it doesn't matter. From what I can see, Erin is not worried if she has to partake in the handling of it. But to be relieved of the responsibility of handling it does make a huge difference.

Kate Purmal:

Yeah. And she's relieved from that responsibility in that moment. Basically, it's okay to not handle this in this moment is what we're hearing, but I'll handle it or we'll handle it is another way to think about it. It's, no don't worry about it in this moment, put it aside, stay focused on the work, whatever is good here and we'll take care of it. So that's the fear, I think that Erin has. And that's probably the trapped feeling is wanting to do something, not knowing what to do and worrying that it's just gonna get shoved under the carpet and nobody's going to be held accountable, nothing's going to happen, it's going to continue to happen. So let's just, uh, let's stop the freeze frame. After Erin has experienced that, and just let the meeting, play out for a few more minutes and tell me what that's like for Erin. And what's it like for others in the room?

Erin Rech:

The electric burn and buzzing in my chest shield lessens. In Erin, in the others, not really a noticeable change, because there's been no stopping the flow. Yeah, the difference is more that like Erin feels relieved of that burden again, to dial back in and become present in that moment instead of being yanked out of it by what had happened.

Kate Purmal:

Yeah, it feels to me like Erin is handing it off. There's a thing she says, I heard that. And we'll take care of this and Erin's able to hand it off somewhere. So it goes somewhere where she can be confident that it'll get taken care of. But she doesn't have to do within that moment. Yes. Which is very different than how it actually went down, which is what happened with that burden that you were handed. In the real scenario. What happened to that burden? Where did it go?

Erin Rech:

Oh, it's in my body. Like I was handed like a hot casserole, and it's like inside me now.

Kate Purmal:

So that's really what happened in the moment. That's so beautiful. Thank you for that. I didn't know where how we were going to do this. But that is it. It's somebody heard it. And we're going to hand it off to somebody to the higher, highest and best good and handle it later. So now, Erin's had time to process and she gets some choices about what to do. And she gets to consult again with the highest and best good who was in the room and seeing this. So let's listen to a conversation that the two of them would have about what to do about it. What would the what would the highest and best good say to Erin, in terms of what's next? Because she said I've got this are all handle this? Yeah, I'll handle this.

Erin Rech:

Yeah. So that highest and best good point of view, is aware that what happened to Erin is happening in other places. And it is worth elevating this narrative with the connection to the vulnerability of Erin's experience, and all the ways it affected her without blame, there's like the routing this handling in pure authentic vulnerability creates an additional safe space for the folks creating this environment, to not be threatened by what the feelings are inside of Erin. And then they can receive what happened in that moment, and then be the various business outcomes that they may not be accounting for in how they think about growth and planning, strategic positioning, when like this one like piece of the process falls out, like what are we truly losing? Yeah, quantify the loss there because there is a loss.

Kate Purmal:

So that act of making them aware, we don't know who 'them' is. We don't need to know for this, but really, because it'll vary based on circumstance. But the act of making them aware is about factually stating what happened to Erin, and what the impact was, and then making the statement, extrapolate the reason I'm bringing this up isn't because of that one incident and you know, if that were an isolated incident, I wouldn't even be talking about this. This is happening to Erin, it's happening to other Erins in the room and other Erins who don't have the same privilege and other Erins who are much lower in the food chain and other Erins with lesser positions of titles and power. And the net effect of all of that is that we're losing. We're really losing because of it. So that's a pretty factual way to be able to describe the situation that Erin could do with the right person.

Erin Rech:

Yeah, I would just say the thing I would want to just check with you if this is the right way to interpret it based on how you're approaching it, is, I often get tripped up by this at work. Fact, obviously, I know what a fact is, but when it comes to my lived experience, fact becomes less obviously fact. But I would, for me, because I've been doing so much my own personal developmental trauma here healing. To me, what is important is not that everyone else feels the same way I did. But the fact of how that feeling showed up for me is admitted into the case as evidence, right?

Kate Purmal:

Yes. So it's when I say fact, yes, there was something that happened to you that's factual. These things were said, your response was this burning, this feeling that you had the feeling trapped, and not knowing what to do? Then wanting to say fuck off, the you know, all of those things happen to you. Those are facts. And it's not a productive way to be engaged in a collaborative meeting, obviously, now, you're going to extrapolate beyond the facts, when you make the statement as a leader in the business and somebody who has purview in the business and probably has access to others in the business, that this isn't a unique incident. But it is there is a systemic issue in the organization in which these types of things happen. And there's a lack of awareness about the impact on me on the organization, on our productivity on the engagement of employees, etc. And that's really the discussion there is to have right. Now, the important thing is that, when you have that discussion, one of the core tenants of dealing with conflict is that conflict is really hard to deal with if you're holding on tightly to an outcome that you want. So if you want if you walk into this discussion, wanting others to behave a certain way, or to make certain decisions or take certain actions, which you don't control, that's going to be really difficult. But if you simply walk in, and know that what the truth is, you can share this experience, you're a valued employee, they can hear it to the extent that they can hear it, and they're going to have to decide what to do about it. You can collaborate with them. But you can just explain the experience and say, I think that there's an opportunity to have our collaborative dynamics be elevated here, so that we can ever really feel more inclusive and participate more.

Erin Rech:

Yeah, what that reminds me of is like, in summation, the truth shall set you free. Because I felt like if I can share that truth, yes, then I am not attached to an outcome, it's more like that experience needs to be amplified, so people can understand and relate to that a little bit more. And the more times you hear about experiences, the more they become something you can understand from the other side of the table. So there was like a freedom that I felt as you were describing them.

Kate Purmal:

Yeah, to be able to say out loud what you felt and how it impacted you. without asking for anything other than saying, you know, I think there's a better way. Exactly. I had the conversation with my husband... it's so funny my husband gets picked on on all these brain hacks. We were walking back from the from our walk with the dogs today. And he now and then barks at me by barking at me I mean like "we gotta blah blah blah!" And it's like, it's not a big deal. But it was so funny. It was like the fourth or fifth time, because he's frustrated, our moving truck isn't coming, it's delayed by two weeks. And we are living in a in a house with no furniture, but I get it. He's frustrated. But you know, like, energetically... yeah. So I said something to him. I said, you know, I said, James, I don't know if you just noticed, but what I heard, I heard you barking. And I've been hearing it this morning. There have been several times that you've barked at me and I know you're frustrated. But I'd like to invite you to consider being more generous in the way you communicate with me. That was all I said. And he said, Wow, that was such a nice way to say that. And I said, I'm glad. That's it. Right. That's it.

Drew Tweedy:

James is like the star of our show.

Kate Purmal:

Exactly! And we got back and he started to do it and he caught himself. He's like, Oh, wait, wait. He literally caught himself. It was like 10 minutes later, and he caught himself and because he wants to be generous, and you know, that's the thing, I think in this situation, the truth is probably that many of the people in your organization that maybe inflicting these microaggressions, they're probably doing it somewhat or largely unconsciously. And they probably have an intention to be more gracious with how they interact, and they work in the world, but they don't, they don't have an awareness that they that there's an issue or that there's an opportunity to be more gracious, there's an opportunity to elevate the conversation, there's an opportunity to create greater inclusiveness. So you're basically creating an invitation, right?

Erin Rech:

Yeah, and the other thing that you reminded me of is, you know, the safe containers for rage. Right? Like your scenario, James reminded me of this. And then I'm thinking about like, even for my own self in that moment, to also allow that, like, there is frustration and anger there and go put that not on a person, yes, but into a safe container to defuse it, because that energy needs to move through, because that's what happens with me as it gets stuck. Because I hold it, that's a long time coming for me. And I'm learning how to do that. But that, that image of like that safe container for that feeling, rather than just shoving it down, because then it bubbles up and boils over.

Kate Purmal:

Are there gonna be times when you feel it that you just can't release it, right? Because it's not necessarily like you're not always somewhere where you can go screaming a pillow or punching something. There's something I'd like you to try. But it's really helpful in terms of releasing it, right. So this is called the dragon breath. And basically, it's a way to release whatever energy you've internalized that you don't want to internalize. Lee Epting, you know my co-author and co-conspirator in the work we do, and I often do this after we have sessions, because we've taken on a lot of energy in the dynamic of the sessions. So what you do is you imagine yourself breathing, taking a big breath in and breathing out like a dragon and I tried to set the fence across the street on fire. So it's like this big inhale and, and you do like three of those, I want you to try pick something to set on fire imaginary you can, you can set it on fire through the walls, you could set the wall on fire, you could do whatever you want. Just go ahead and take that incident. Take that feeling of you internalize, and let's try to dragon breath it up. Okay. Okay, so let's do three minutes. Okay. Love it. I love it. She's also using her hands to push it away, which is even better. Exactly. There you go.

Drew Tweedy:

The third one's the biggest of the bunch. And to me, it looks like they're pretty effective. And I think we might want to share this tactic with Mr. James. Erin, how was that for you?

Erin Rech:

I feel like more movement in my upper torso now. Like it's been set free.

Kate Purmal:

[Dogs barking in background.]

Erin Rech:

And I got the dogs barking because it was so powerful.

Drew Tweedy:

They're the stars of the show. James and the dogs.

Kate Purmal:

So the important thing here is that the clue to do that was where you talked about your burning. And so whenever you're feeling something stuck somewhere, like if it's in your throat and in your esophagus, it needs to be breathed out. You can breathe out just about anything, but it's super effective to breathe it out if it's up here in your throat, your esophagus, just to get that out. So how do you feel now when you think about that incident and think about things in the future happening? How do you feel about it?

Erin Rech:

I feel like it was sitting, and I'm gonna apply the psychotherapy that I know. It was sitting like disassociated and still in a present moment, outside of my lived day to day experience. And now it feels like it is a truth that is now integrated into my day to day. But it's not something I have to hold on to separately. Like I have an awareness of it. Having this dragon breath tool I think will make a huge difference if I if and when I run into it again. But knowing that there's still a call to accountability within it, to make sure that there is change that happens as a result.

Kate Purmal:

Yeah, the thing that I think was so beautiful about what you did was that you, when we froze everybody, you acknowledge that the first thing is to have higher good, say I heard that. And the second thing is I got that, I'll take care of that. And that you could in that moment, pass it on knowing that you're not shoving it down, very big difference between shoving it down and passing it on. So your system is choosing to take care of that in another time in a different way. And stay focused here, but not internalize it and not shove it down. And then the next thing I think, is really, this idea of inviting, like you said, stating, being being able to state the truth and your experience and inviting others in the organization to step up their game, to elevate their presence to elevate their collaboration to be more generous.

Erin Rech:

Yeah, I like that generosity of communication with another.

Kate Purmal:

Yeah, it's really beautiful. Thank you, I didn't know what to expect with the 7/11 camera. And what you saw is really beautiful. And it's really, really going to help so many people in that moment, because I think that what makes us feel stuck, is we're like,"Ah, I don't want to internalize it. But I don't want to let it go. I don't want to forget about it. I want to shove it down. I don't want to, but I want to I want to deal with it. But I can't right now." It's like this panicky thing, right? And this is like no, no, we're just going to we are going to say, Oh, I heard that. That means you're saying that to we are going to say I heard that. I'm gonna deal with that. We're gonna do that later. Right?

Erin Rech:

Well, and that reminds me of, you know, no one is going to save us besides ourselves. And, you know, that's all happening inside of me, as it just did. And the wonder that I have of like, there can be the highest and best good. And the person in my body. We're all the same thing. But those two separate awareness mechanisms, yes, when deployed together actually lead to a more heightened outcome.

Kate Purmal:

Yeah, and in that moment, you can float, you can freeze time by floating up, like, I'm not saying you're literally freezing time, people are gonna continue, but you can stop and pause. And you can float up to that highest and best good surveillance camera. And you can stop for a moment and take a breath. And just I guarantee you, if you do that, everybody in the room is going to feel oh, my god, something just happened, right? It's almost like this moment of acknowledging it without saying a word. Because you just dropped into the highest good. And you paused to allow that to land.

Erin Rech:

Yeah, and that's the same approach for like, panic attacks, too. There's a FLOAT acronym, actually. That is from a book about hope and help for your nerves by Dr. Claire Weeks, like written in the 60s. And that was, I mean, I've had panic attacks in my 30s and now 40s. And that was the first book that actually like shone a bit, a little bit of light on how to separate the symptom from the anxiety from the highest and best good.

Kate Purmal:

So if you were to take this approach of to whomever you took this to have of basically recounting your experience and broadening the context to to reflect the impact, the negative impact and the possibility of elevating and having more generosity and inclusion in the way you work. How do you think whoever your take that to would respond to that?

Erin Rech:

If I went directly to the person who created the microaggression, you know, without intending, yeah, I would be a little bit like telling a brick wall. Yeah, which I understand. For me, I think the place where it would be received is like within folks within my management tier. And then, I think telling other people that I know about this scenario, there might be like a better way that I could learn to approach it with the person who created the scenario. Yeah. When it's not just me saying so. Like there's like a collective organizing around the moment that I think could make the difference.

Kate Purmal:

Interesting. So basically, you could use it as an impetus to create change, but do so with the collaboration and support of others. Not having it off on you.

Erin Rech:

Yeah, I'm really struck by the like idea of like, taking what happens outside of corporations walls, like community organizing, and applying that into corporate places that like, it isn't one person's fight, it's not often even like one teams fight. Yeah, if it is the true thing that needs to be changed, it's usually pretty universal. And the more people who will raise their voices in support of that change, the better chance there is of it becoming real.

Kate Purmal:

And that's really important and very interesting. So part of what there is to do is name and articulate the issue, the broad issue, and call for and invite change, right, basically invite, and have supportive others who can relate to so the way you describe what that is, I think, is really important as when you're going to bring this forward, because you want to be clear, and you want to be able to tell the story of how it's impacting things. And you want to be able to tell it from multiple vantage points, not just your own.

Drew Tweedy:

And to do that on your terms, too, right? I think something really powerful that I was hearing from you, as you were in that 7/11 surveillance camera mode. (I feel like we were in an episode of House of Cards, highest and best good edition, something like that.) But anyway, what I was really hearing from you, Erin, I jotted this down, so I'm gonna read from it. To sort of sum up what you were saying, it was almost like you were saying that sometimes responding to these situations where something is clearly very wrong and very toxic, sometimes responding in those situations most effectively means not reacting right away. But instead being able to invest your energy where it's actually going to count, and sharing your experience on your own terms, to be able to create more systemic change, rather than try to react and try to come up with the best response that you possibly can. Because then you just make it about the person who's doing the wrong thing in the first place. Right. And I thought it was just a really profound way of being able to, to approach a situation and invest your energy in the most effective way possible.

Erin Rech:

Thank you, I will tell you that was a learn by trial by fire situation, tried going it alone a few times.

Drew Tweedy:

Trial by electric burn!

Erin Rech:

So this is the only other path I found.

Kate Purmal:

And I think the other thing I heard is this idea is the martial arts idea. When it's coming at you, you don't take it and push back you move it, you let it move beyond you. And then you return, right you let it move away, take the momentum and move it somewhere else. And that idea that there's a place to put it for a moment is actually I think really important. So too, for all of us listening, who do you create the little, the highest and best good person sometimes people name these people who are there, say "Oh, I'm gonna give that one over to Jane because Jane's a badass, and she's gonna help me handle this later." But I'm gonna give it to her to hold on to because she heard that too. And then I'm going to come back to the meeting.

Erin Rech:

Yeah, mine I don't think needs a persona or a name. It's more in the therapy modality I use there is a name for it called Self with a capital S. Which is like that universal connective divine tissue that we all share and so does nature and so does the sunrise and all of that when you can connect to that like cable within you. That is the the being that I would like to call forth to monitor my CCTV.

Kate Purmal:

I love it. Well, Erin, thank you so much. This has been really profound and really, I think everybody's gonna find it really helpful and when they next encounter this and but I'd also like to hear from you the one thing to be always ask at the end of our siessions that you're taking away that's the most important thing for you.

Erin Rech:

It's going to be two things because I think they're not, I can't do one without the other. Having that self awareness inside of those moments to do the karate master like shifted somewhere else. As well as the dragon breath release those two things in in harmony I think will make a huge difference. That's great.

Kate Purmal:

Well, we'll check back in as in a few weeks, which we always do with our brain hack to just find out what's happening as what does that what's unfolded is anything happened is anything different. So we'll look forward to hearing more. Great, thank you.

Erin Rech:

Thank you so much.